Talk:Charles Socarides

From dKosopedia

Gilbert Herdt is a well-known advocate of adult/child sex and has published numerous books and articles on the value of older gay males serving as "coaches" and "guides" to boys who are questioning their sexuality, helping them overcome their parents' values -- which the boys come to see, Herdt says, as "a constant source of exasperation and amusement." In an interview in PAIDIKA, the Dutch pedophile journal (Winter, 1993), Herdt said that the category of "child" is "a rhetorical device for inflaming what is really an irrational set of attitudes" against the sexuality of children. Therefore, I think that citing him to discredit 50 years of psychoanalytic research of Dr. Socarides is not appropriate. ______________

Your reasoning is nothing more than a combination of guilt by association and name calling. That is not good enough. Herdt appears to be a well respected academic, albeit one who writes and says things that alarm individuals suffering from homosexual panic.

I do not understand why you think that my reasoning is "a combination of guilt by association and name calling." You are confusing me with a homophobe or a person who discriminates against homosexuals, which is in fact not true. I simply believe that people should have the freedom to pursue their own destiny and if a person does not want to be homosexual, he/she should have the same freedom to choose his/her sexual orientation as a person who chooses to stay homosexual.
"Herdt appears to be a well respected academic." Well respected by whom? Please cite your sources. I cited mine and quoted every single thing Herdt said.
Herdt "writes and says things that alarm individuals suffering from homosexual panic." I did not know you supported pedophilia and apparently believe that being alarmed by pedophilia means being homophobic.
If you think that Herdt "writes and says things that alarm individuals suffering from homosexual panic," then I must conclude that Socarides wrote and said things that alarm individuals suffering from heterosexual panic. Apparently, for some reason, you do not want to accept that homosexuality can be treated (have you tried?) and do not even want to give other courageous people the freedom to be who they want to be.

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I don't care who you are or what you are or what you believe. Seriously. Not interested in your personal drama.

Pulling a quote from some marginal Dutch magazine--you read Dutch I take it?--to smear Herdt with everything else reported in the magazine looks like old fashioned guilt by association.

How could you have quoted everything Herdt said. Look at his list of academic publications.

Speaking of which, the answer to "Respected by whom?" is answered by the list I found in a simple google search. Herdt is an academic heavyweight in Anthropology etc. I'm guessing that you aren't.

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I just ran into this site tonight and I see that BartFraden has been very busy changing this page every other hour. Citing Herdt (pedophile advocate) is in itself alarming, but citing him to somehow discredit Dr. Socarides' work is laughable.

"I don't care who you are or what you are or what you believe. Seriously. Not interested in your personal drama. "

- Who debates like this? A girl of 13? It sounds like you're giving him "the hand" and shaking your head from side to side. Give this site and yourself some respect. Honesty and detail is key in every debate so try to cite your sources with more than "a google search".

I'm glad that we still have the choice to seek help with problems we don't fully understand and find ego-dystonic. I'm proud that there were men like Dr. Socarides, who cared more about his patience than the changing politics of one given day. One that courageously fought for what he and his patients understood was right. I find qouting Dr. Sander Breiner's words in an article discussing Dr. Socarides' work pretty adequate: "Those in the homosexual community who have attacked him do not realize what a friend they have lost." _______________________________________________________________________________

Trynet, or should we say Mark###?, you can imagine me as a 13 year old girl if you like.

No, my name is not Mark, did you think only one person disagrees with you? The imagination stops at the image of an older gay man, completely unaware of his unconscious (ignorance is bliss), whose sole purpose in life, in order to rid himself of internalized guilt, has been to prove to others but most importantly to himself, that he is indeed well, normal and completely psychologically healthy. He spends his free time projecting his own anger of himself and his parental figures toward the work of a man who spent 50 years of his life researching the causes of homosexuality, the psycho-dynamic makeup and who has offered psychoanalytical help to those who needed it desperately, whose credentials and life's work is clear to the honest researcher. This man he is attacking; citing pedophiles and what not, in an attempt to reject yet again that underlying feeling, that wont go away, that he is indeed deficient.

Acting like a 13 year old girl is just a symptom of this deficiency.

BartFraden, Herdt's credentials are numerous. It must have taken you forever to write that page. Too bad that all his publications seem to be all the same: he keeps repeating over and over that being homosexual is like being lefthanded. All his publications have been published in Gay and Lesbian journals, or in the Dutch journal of the pedophile. Not too difficult for a gay doctor to publish in a gay journal articles in which he proclaims that gay is normal. Who is ever going to reject one of his publications? What are the credentials of the reviewing committee members for those journals? Other gays, of course. What a mafia. For your information, I am not homophobic. Neither was Socarides. Socarides had a very deep compassion of homosexuals and loved his patients very deeply because he understood what it means to suffer so much in life that you come to a point in which you are attracted to people of your same sex. It is not funny, and Dr. Socarides suffered with his patients to make them get well.

I am so sorry for you, BartFraden. Not because you are gay, but because you are evil. You are so angry that you are gay that you don't want to give other courageous people a chance to change, and you keep insisting that homosexuality cannot be changed. Just because you have failed, you want everybody else to fail. Why does it bother you so much that somebody has changed? Why does it bother you that a doctor out there studied how to make a homosexual person heterosexual? If you are not interested in changing, realize that nobody is trying to force you. But the same way as nobody wants to force you to become straight, you should not force the entire world to becme gay like you. _______________________________________________________________________________

I would recommend that you get some professional help.

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I recommend you get professional help. If Dr. Socarides were still alive, he would have made you heterosexual, and you would have become the person you were supposed to be if people had not hurt you---those same people that, with your homosexuality, you are trying to protect. You are addressing your anger towards the only friend that you could have ever had. Instead, you should address your anger towards who castrated you and made you believe that you are not a real man, forcing you to need to incorporate the penis of another man to become complete.

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BartFraden, you are so sick and evil. It bothers you so much to hear that homosexuality is treatable, doesn't it. Have you tried to change? If you haven't then why are you so sure that it is not treatable? Even if you have tried, and failed, what makes you think that other people would not succeed? You are so envious of the success of other people. Since you have failed in your life and you have accepted to lose your own battle, you want everybody else to lose it with you, so you feel better. EVIL, you are JUST EVIL. You are so envious that other men are more masculine than you are. You can't accept that Socarides helped many people -- people more courageous than you are, people who had the guts to become heterosexual, proving with their change that homosexuality is not genetic. If homosexuality were genetic, how would you explain the hundreds of documented cases of identical twins (same DNA) with different sexual orientations? For your information, you are right when you say that homosexuality appears in every society in the world, but so do anorexia, cancer, kleptomania, and many other things. So let's celebrate cancer too.

You are creepy.

This is creepy

Second the motion.--Allamakee Democrat 10:58, 23 March 2006 (PST)

There is nothing homophobic in claiming that homosexuality is treatable. Homophobia is to say that homosexuality is "wrong" or "a sin", or to laugh at homosexuals. That is homophobia. Let us fight homophobia. However, instead of fighting homophobia, you guys are attacking the wrong enemy: a doctor who understood the pain and suffering that can lead to homosexuality and did everything he could to help troubled people. Socarides simply said that homosexuals could become heterosexuals, if they wanted to. Of course, homophobic people took advantage of Socarides' findings and used it to discriminate against homosexuals. Have the courage to fight homophobia, not a doctor who spent 54 years of his life doing research and trying to help his patients. Socarides loved and respected his patients very much, and never rejected them.

You are even creepier

Please, admin[s], revert this creepy article and block this whackjob.--Allamakee Democrat 22:45, 23 March 2006 (PST)

Your Editing is Totally Biased

I am reverting Socarides' page because whoever edits it (BartFraden and Allamakee Democrat) are clearly discriminating against Socarides (the way they would not want themselves to be discriminated against). Is this an encyclopedia or a big joke? Examples:

Bartfraden and Allamakee Democrat define Socarides as "A product of the 1950s era American medical-ization of psychotherapy that retained the language and non-scientific approach of Freudianism though not its balanced humanistic insights into human sexuality."
"Charles Socarides appears to have become a Freudian at the impressionable age of 13 after reading a biography of Sigmund Freud. His conversion was thus less the result of intellectual conviction than attachment to a portrayal of a attractive father figure in text." Should I explain why this is biased or any idiot would understand it?
There is even a section entitled "Intellectual Limitation." Even though you may disagree with Socarides, you should know that Socarides published 16 books as well as more than 80, peer-reviewed scientific papers and journal articles. If there is someone with intellectual limitations, that is you.
Homosexuality "appears in every society on the planet." True. So do cancer, homicides, kleptomania, etc.
"By 'cure' Socarides and other reparative psychotherapists do not mean that their subjects no longer experience homosexual feelings but rather that such feelings are effectively repressed." Wrong! First of all, Socarides was not a reparative psychotherapist. Second, he really cured his patients, not just helped them repress their feelings. If you are so sure that Socarides ever said that the best one could hope is repressing their feelings, you should cite an appropriate source. This is an encyclopedia, not a place for gay propaganda and recruiting. If you are so sure that homosexual feelings cannot be eliminate, I can only conclude that you have tried and failed. And if you have tried, this means you are not happy. I am so sorry for you. Other people have tried and failed, but are not as evil as you are, and they are not trying to discourage others. Other people have tried and succeeded, but you don't want to hear about them because you are envious.
Funny how all the words that seem to imply that homosexuality can be changed (such as cured, treated, etc.) have been quoted, as if they were just Socarides' opinion. However, all the words that imply that homosexuality cannot be changed have not been quoted, as if they were a holy truth, whereas they are only your opinion, because you are homosexual, and you don't want to change, and you don't want anybody to change.

I propose that this encyclopedia sticks to the facts. All your opinions that homosexuality is unchangeable or that Socarides had intellectual limitations, etc. are only your opinions, not facts.

Troll Alert

Mark242 is a troll. --Allamakee Democrat 03:19, 27 March 2006 (PST)

Response to Allamakee Democrat's Alert

Allamakee Democrat is a dictator. He/She does not tolerate other people's expressing their points of view. He/She discriminates against those people and tries to silence them by publicly tagging them as trolls. His/Her name includes the word "democrat" but his/her idea of democracy is the same as Hitler's.

Violation of Dkosopedia's Spirit

Dr. Charles Socarides' page was locked on 3/27/2006 by antidemocratic gay activists. It has become impossible to edit that page and express a different point of view. This is a complete violation of the dkosopedia democratic spirit. The gay movement wants to prevent people from knowing that a doctor spent 54 years of his life and career studying homosexuality and finding a cure for it. Change is possible but the gay movement wants everybody to be gay to proclaim the idea that homosexuality is good and homosexuality is unchangeable.

HOMOSEXUALITY CAN BE CURED!!!

If you are unhappy being gay, know that change is possible. Socarides cured many patients and proved that homosexuality can in fact be turned into heterosexuality. Gay activists try to hide this truth and have locked Socarides' page trying to prevent the world from knowing that homosexuality is changeable. This is not a democracy. This is a dictatorship.

Mark 2:24, (KJV)

And the Pharisees said unto him, Behold, why do they on the sabbath day that which is not lawful?

Category:

Please add Category:Sexuality issues to this article so we can get it out of the uncat pages list. Chadlupkes 20:08, 19 August 2006 (PDT)

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This page was last modified 03:08, 20 August 2006 by Chad Lupkes. Based on work by dKosopedia user(s) Allamakee Democrat, Mark242, Powerofpie, BartFraden and Trynet. Content is available under the terms of the GNU Free Documentation License.